Why I don't want a minivan

"mcseanerson" (mcseanerson) 05/03/2016 at 11:50 • Filed to: None

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I’m a married father of three. I believe strongly in form follows function, although not to the extent that you should abandon form. I street park at least once a day. I should love minivans.

My problem with minivans isn’t the concept, it’s the limited selection we have to choose from. Lets get some of the obvious stuff out of the way.

NOPE. I am very anti-mopar and there is nothing about these that could make me change my mind.

The Honda Odyssey would probably be my van of choice if it weren’t for it’s reputation for eating transmissions. I don’t care if whatever the issue was is resolved now, I just can’t trust them.

Toyota is just too beige for me and their used cars hold their value too much for me to consider.

I owned a Mercury Villager once.

On to the more complex options.

I actually kind of like the Kia Sedona but the used ones are always pretty terrible and I don’t think I like it enough to buy a new one.

The golden child. I really really wanted Mazda to make a skyactiv version of this but they never did. I will probably purchase a used 5 one day. With a stick.

I want to like the Ford Transit, and I do as a cargo van, but it’s just a little too odd for me.

So, what would it take to get me to change my mind on any of these, or any new minivans? It’s simple really, actually try and make them more fuel efficient.

We see all this new fuel saving tech being applied all over the place but for some reason none of it ever reaches the three row vehicles. I know the fact that it would take more engineering and more expensive parts for more modest gains then what you get putting a turbo three in a tiny hatchback but I’d at least like to see them attempt it.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 11:53

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Get a used minivan. Use the rest for a race car.

not for canada - australian in disguise > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 11:57

5

Ahem.

The holy trinity of bitchin’ minivans.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 11:59

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I mean I know you’re a Nopar guy, but they make a damn fine mini-van if you’re in the market for one. The new Pacifica actually looks great imo

Transit Connect is even available in a pretty high trim level Titanium model now, pretty nice. Ride is stiff though. I mean, it is what it is, it’s a little commercial van with nice seats at that point.

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 11:59

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Then don’t get one. No one is forcing you to. I hear there are great deals on Golf Sportwagons right now.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:00

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The only option in minivans

Shift24 > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:02

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Here’s a better idea, find a used GM conversion Van (can get them dirt cheap and they are reliable as all get out). Put a tow hitch on it (6.5k lbs tow rating) and go buy trailer and a race car. Problem solved.

CalzoneGolem > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 05/03/2016 at 12:02

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They also make great trucks but the rest is kinda shit.

EL_ULY > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:03

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XC90 T8 is 3 rows, awd, and get 53 MPGe. But costs a bazillion dollars lol.

My old 5cyl Turbo XC90 has 3 rows and easily gets 22 mpg avg.* For just under $6,000... not bad Obama.jpg

*60% mostly heavy traffic, 40% clear freeways

I’d say New/CPO Sienna or old XC90 :]

Newsboy > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:03

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What you want is this:

Gets 25/33 mpg, drives as comfortably as an Accord, seats five with room to spare, has plenty of room for all your kid crap, and more ground clearance than a Grand Cherokee.

Kanaric > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:04

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my opinion on this is a sedan or 4 door hatchback does the same job, so why get the minivan? Same opinion I have for SUVs most of the time

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:05

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As a former salesman who dealt with the objections of many when they said they wanted a 7-seat vehicle and “not a minivan” but still sold the most Siennas in my region, I will say the car is purely an excercise in function. It is the vehicular form of your superego, whereas all of the fun stuff is the id.

You cannot have any emotion in your purchase of a minivan. I own one, so I speak from experience.

What you have to do is look at it from a practical standpoint. 1. they get better gas mileage than their SUV brethren all while having a more convenient to use rear seat. No flop, fold, flip or fiddle, you just walk right to it. 2 they have more cargo space thanks to lower floors. As most SUVs are moving to unibodies, they also tow similar amounts. So you are in fact giving up less for a comparably sized vehicle.

Then you get to the really great thing about minivans. The top objection, “I don’t want to be seen in a minivan.” When was the last time you saw a minivan on the road? They are the automotive equivalent of stealth. I have been driving 20 mph over in a minvan only to have the car I was passing get pulled over. The cop either didn’t see me, or assumed it was not the minivan that was speeding.

I am currently in the test phase of what is is more powerful, that minivans are invisible, or that red cars get pulled over more often. My red minivan has not had an officer at its driver’s side window yet, so I am leaning toward “minivans are invisible” as the penultimate truth man knows, right after “It always rains after you wash your car.”

vondon302 > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:05

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66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 12:06

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Gonna have to go with this one...

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:06

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My mom got a Transit Connect Titanium LWB loaner when the Fusion was having a gas smell looked at.

That fugly thing can stay a cargo van where it belongs. The only thing I’ve driven that I hated more was my Safari with its failing transmission and worn out suspension.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > CalzoneGolem 05/03/2016 at 12:07

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I’m not really into the Ram lineup, though you sure as hell can get a cheap lease on them!

OPPOsaurus WRX > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:07

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i tell my wife at least once a week this is what we should have bought

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:07

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‘97 GMC Safari

Well maintained, RWD, Class III towing capacity. Ignore the paint falling off...

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:08

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VW Eurovan or E39 BMW wagon are both quite nice.

dogisbadob > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:10

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That lead pic is awesome. Rally Venture/Sintra! Also, the Transit Connect is awesome, even though not perfect.

And of course, making more fuel-efficient engines is easy, as they’re already offered in other countries.

You could always go up to Canada and buy a new manual 5 (or Rondo)

Newsboy > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 12:11

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Technically incorrect.

450X_FTW > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:12

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Going to the auto show to look at a minivan, is like going to a strip club to look at the DJ

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:15

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I hate how they’re trying to make them look aggressive and sporty. It’s a van. Be proud of the practicality.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Newsboy 05/03/2016 at 12:18

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street legality and you cant put kid seats in racing buckets.

and does it drift?

BigBlock440 > Newsboy 05/03/2016 at 12:18

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Since when does the Outback have over 11 inches of ground clearance?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:20

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I would buy a Transit if I could get one with a diesel and a stick. Otherwise no-go. Same with all of the other small vans dropping in the last few years. Personally, cars are just way too complicated for me these days. I really hate a car that tries to drive me in any way whatsoever. As such, I’m still sticking to buying a dirt cheap low mileage cherry garage-kept rust free ninetysomething Buick Roadmaster wagon (they exist in spades in Florida), replacing the engine and transmission with something modern (God bless GM’s stubborn refusal to change any of their bolt patterns), upgrading and rebuilding the suspension, and maybe updating/upgrading the HVAC system. At the very least rebuild it with new parts. While doing this, heavily undercoat it to eliminate any chance of any rust ever appearing, and you have a car for life that you can fix yourself with parts found on the side of the road (don’t ever change, GM - I know - You won’t) should you need to, which really shouldn’t be for the next fifteen years or so apart from little things like your power windows, wiper motors and such. The way I see it, by buying the last body-on-frame American wagon and giving it some love, you have a car for life that can seat 8 (and you’ll be the coolest parent ever with those rear facing rear seats), tow 7500 lbs (eat your heart out, trucks), smoke almost anything at a stoplight thanks to GM never stopping the development of the SBC, and be diagnosed with a simple OBDII scanner if you drop a modern engine into it. This is the perfect solution. It will be as reliable as a new car, cheaper, faster, roomier, more comfortable, more capable, etc. The list goes on.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 05/03/2016 at 12:21

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They make a damn fine nest of elextrical issues, blown head gaskets (because paper), and transmission issues.

Mercedes Streeter > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 12:21

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street legality and you cant put kid seats in racing buckets.

I think the velocity stacks would be a greater problem to child safety than the buckets. xD

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > not for canada - australian in disguise 05/03/2016 at 12:22

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As a former first-gen MPV owner - it doesn’t deserve hype. Go with the lighter options. It was like the worst of a minivan without the advantages of one. It was cramped, drove like shit, and broke often.

mcseanerson > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 05/03/2016 at 12:27

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I’ve always been anti-mopar but the wife convinced me to buy a WJ Grand Cherokee. Now I’m firmly anti-mopar and so is she.

-this space for rent- > Mercedes Streeter 05/03/2016 at 12:32

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The kids would be a bigger danger to the engine.

mcseanerson > Newsboy 05/03/2016 at 12:33

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I don’t see a third row or sliding doors. I street park and sliding doors are a real advantage. That and not wincing as your kid dings the next vehicle over with the door.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Mercedes Streeter 05/03/2016 at 12:34

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no dont throw your cheerios in the stacks! bad timmy!

mcseanerson > Kanaric 05/03/2016 at 12:36

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I have three kids and am Catholic. Three could turn into four any day and four could turn into seven. Right now I’m hauling five people in a Kia Soul and I’m convinced it is the best possible option for someone in my situation but it’s still cramped with a stroller and a diaper bag and the ungodly size of women’s purses.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:36

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One of my elemenary school teachers had 6 kids so she just had an old 12 passenger Ram van as a DD.

Also, have you considered this?:

mcseanerson > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. 05/03/2016 at 12:37

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I eventually want something with a third row. Either due to extra kids or the kids I have being crammed three in a row every day.

mcseanerson > Van Man, rocks the Man Van 05/03/2016 at 12:38

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I probably will eventually. I’m considering getting a used Mazda 5 for myself as a daily driver and when the wife is ready to trade in the Kia Soul maybe get an SUV or wagon for her.

Mercedes Streeter > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 12:39

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Well I mean, Timmy was trying to see if the engine was hungry! I mean, it seemed to be growling so loud!

Mercedes Streeter > -this space for rent- 05/03/2016 at 12:39

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*Drops LEGO into stack*

Bytemite > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:40

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A normal car fits 5. That’s what you have. A minivan fits 7.

McMike > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:40

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Minivan

Is

Always

The

Answer

d15b > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:41

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Just as long as your mini-van is not your only vehicle you should be in the clear.

Scott > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 12:41

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A Renault Espace is totally street legal. Plus you could go more the TG route of a Minivan Cabriolet since it is body on frame. Of course the F1 version is a LOT different since it is based on an F1 car, but it was only ever a show car anyway. Now importability, that’s another issues, only the first gen are old enough to import, and it’s well not so good looking. The current GenV are great, and since it was developed with Nissan, you might find a Nissan version someday but currently you'll find it in the form of a Rogue. Unfortunately I think it is also no longer body on frame.

RallyWrench > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:46

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I searched for a Mazda 5 with a stick for 3 months, no luck. That, and my wife thought it was too small when parked next to her 325iT. I also really like the Ford Transit, but we couldn’t afford a new vehicle. We got a well-kept 10 year old Sienna XLE with 100k miles, and it’s great. Embrace the van, it’s a utility vehicle, built to serve exactly the purpose we have. Better fuel economy would be great, but that would mean a $50,000 hybrid van, which nobody would pay for and with impacted load space due to batteries. They’ll get there, but for now I’m good with 25 on the highway. By the time hybrid vans are dialed in and available used, I hope not to need one anymore.

boobytrapsandtreasure > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:49

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Get a used Odyssey with a warranty. The transmission probelm is long over. Do it. Don’t get the Sienna. Two sets of our friends bought them in the last five years and both ditched them for the Odyssey because of various front end issues. I have no opinion about the others except the Nissan: Don’t go there. Stay far away from it. There is a reason they are so cheap on the used market.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 12:55

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I’m confused how religion factors in. Is the lost 11th commandment “thou shalt not carry children hence within yon hatchback”?

mcseanerson > boobytrapsandtreasure 05/03/2016 at 13:01

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I owned a Mercury villager and a friend currently owns a Mercury villager and they were both nightmares.

BKosher84 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 05/03/2016 at 13:03

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They believe in dirty kinky sex but not contraception.

mcseanerson > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 05/03/2016 at 13:03

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I have three kids and am Catholic. Three could turn into four any day and four could turn into seven. Right now I’m hauling five people in a Kia Soul and I’m convinced it is the best possible option for someone in my situation but it’s still cramped with a stroller and a diaper bag and the ungodly size of women’s purses.

In case you missed it. Right now I have three kids in a hatchback and I love it.

mcseanerson > McMike 05/03/2016 at 13:06

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Some content (I hate Kinja)

not for canada - australian in disguise > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/03/2016 at 13:09

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Then replace the MPV with a Previa.

Vicente Esteve > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 13:09

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There isn’t much choice then. I would get a Transit.

JustAnotherG6 > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 13:23

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We have owned two Mopar Mini-vans (‘o8 GC and ‘12 Routan [no matter what my wife says, it’s just a dodge]) and I can tell you they are not as bad as you think they would be. In fact, after having ridden in or driven the Sienna & Odyssey I would say they are on par with what the market is presenting. If anything I would recommend them due to the stigma of being Mopar/American driving the price on used to a reasonable level. Our Routan averages about 24-26 MPG with the cruise set at 75, 18-20 in the city. In fact if I were to do it again (and costs being the same) I would get the Dodge instead just b/c the middle seats fold flat into the floor (Dodge wouldn’t let VW do that even though we have the same storage compartments) which means you never have to worry about removing a seat to load the purchases from an impromptu IKEA spree.

Also: Jeep =/= Dodge. Some similarities but not everything is shared between them.

ttyymmnn > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 13:24

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I’ll read this at length soon, but I can tell you that I’ve got a ‘03 Odyssey that has never had a single issue with the transmission. There. I said it.

Newsboy > BigBlock440 05/03/2016 at 13:25

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Grand Cherokee: 8.6
Outback: 8.7

http://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-re…

Newsboy > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 13:25

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Fair enough. Looks like you’re back to your original quandary.

Newsboy > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 05/03/2016 at 13:26

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Yo dawg, I put a Recaro in your Recaro so you can Recaro while you Recaro.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 13:30

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Used vans are a fantastic value. There's the Mazda5 like you mentioned, which is a good value, but there are a lot of other good used buys too. A 3rd generation Honda Odyssey like ours is practically unbeatable for kid-hauling and can be had for under $10k. My uncle recently bought a 3 year old loaded Nissan Quest for under $20k.

BigBlock440 > Newsboy 05/03/2016 at 13:37

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Don’t know if I’d trust that site. Changing the trim to 4wd doesn’t change it, changing it to SRT changes it 8.3", then changing it to Overland 4WD changes it to 6.6", even lower than the SRT.

From Jeep’s own website:

http://www.jeep.com/en/jeep-capabi…

Caleb "If a rally car can do it, so can my Malibu" M. S. > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 14:40

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Why minivan when you can wagon?

mcseanerson > Caleb "If a rally car can do it, so can my Malibu" M. S. 05/03/2016 at 14:45

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I will eventually need three rows.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > not for canada - australian in disguise 05/03/2016 at 14:56

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I support this sentiment.

Danger > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 15:37

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I had a hand me down Voyager minivan as my first car. I definitely get not wanting a minivan, but they are just so useful. After I ditched the shameful Voyager, I made fun of them as much as possible. Then at work, we switched from 2500HD pickups to minivans for one job and...they kept our gear safe and dry, we could pick up the whole crew, they drove nicer, they were more comfortable and well appointed, we made fewer gas stops, and they performed as well if not better. I’d vote for an Odyssey but overall, minivans are just to practical not to consider.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Mercedes Streeter 05/03/2016 at 15:50

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Mostly because they will inevitably throw something down there thus converting the engine to external combustion.

nermal > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 15:52

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That’s why they make cages for transporting children. They’re easy to stack in the back of a pickup if you have several, and you can let the dog ride with them as well.

No need for a minivan then!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 15:54

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R-class? Available with two gas V6's, two V8's, and a diesel (depending on the year). I know, Benz maintenance blah blah, but the newer ones are pretty well sorted and have more attractive headlights than the weird bug eye things.

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/03/2016 at 15:58

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Not to mention cracking 3.6 heads, wonky rear brake calipers, explodey power steering lines, and whole host of rattles and squeaks.

mcseanerson > Danger 05/03/2016 at 16:00

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I’m definitely considering but just disappointed in the options.

Danger > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 16:04

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Yeah, it’d be nice if there was an actual cool minivan, not sure if that could exist or not.

mcseanerson > Danger 05/03/2016 at 16:13

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The 5 was pretty cool considering it shared the same platform as the Mazda 3 and you could even swap all the parts from a speed 3 to it.

al-zo - Now with an Acura! > mcseanerson 05/03/2016 at 22:43

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e-class wagon’s got u covered

mcseanerson > al-zo - Now with an Acura! 05/04/2016 at 00:31

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I really want a three row wagon but the wife is really freaked out by rear facing seats. We’ll see what happens in a couple years when I’m actually in the market.

Daddio > mcseanerson 06/27/2016 at 11:36

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We just got (leased) a new Sedona. I’m not a professional auto reviewer, but I’ve been in a few luxury cars (various Lexus and Benz models recently), and dang if this SXL Tech isn’t just about as nice inside. I am a brand snob, and I don’t really want to own a used Kia (hence the lease - walk away if it proves unreliable or ages poorly), but it’ll be covered bumper-to-bumper for the duration of the lease. The radar cruise control and auto high beams are freakin’ amazing. I was so impressed that I didn’t even go on to test drive the Sienna and Odyssey, it just felt really great, wife was happy, and they made us a fair deal.

The ride and handling on the 2014 Pathfinder we traded in (why so soon? - baby #4, unexpected blessing) was better, I think. But it drives pretty well for a van.

mcseanerson > Daddio 06/27/2016 at 12:38

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Honestly I had not looked that much at the Sedona before I wrote this and I remembered the nasty ones from 2005 and older. I saw one driving down the road the other day and was shocked how nice it looked.

Daddio > mcseanerson 06/28/2016 at 09:58

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http://www.motortrend.com/news/the-big-t…

Among other favorable reviews. The darn thing is actually pretty sweet.

mcseanerson > Daddio 06/28/2016 at 11:18

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Yeah, the Sedona keeps looking more and more tempting.